E85 Thread & Discussion

[AlexD]

Id like to make a thread about E85 so everyone can share their experiences with using it in place of pump gas.

It seems these days a lot of people are a bit misinformed about E85 and its suppossed corrosiveness when it comes to fuel system components. Just the other day I was in Oreillys talking with a friend about E85 and one of the workers freaked out and said "I would never use E85 on my stock fuel system".

Theres a lot to be discussed and learned about it, and I figure alot of people would benefit from a thread like this.

So, please feel free to chime in on your E85 experience and knowledge. Its so common and popular in our area today!

I personally have used E85 in one of my civics and I loved it. The car never had a single problem (contrary to my gsr :) )

And as far as corrossiveness goes, heres a thread on H-T with people experimenting with it on fuel system components and more.

Boost Works NY is doing some testing along with Tonio (on these boards). We want to solve all of the E85 rumors.
How will the fuel effect various car parts? What will it corrode? What wont it eat away at?

We started the test on 04/25/2010 at around 6PM EST
04/26/2010: No changes. Marked fuel level to record evaporation.
04/27/2010: Slight fuel evaporation. No appearance changes to any parts.

We have several parts submerged in E85 and we will be recording (and posting) the effects, if any.

This is the list of the parts we have

1.5" Sch 10 Pipe 304L Stainless Steel Elbow
1.5" 316L Stainless Steel Tubing
3/8" Heater Hose
Arias Forged Piston
Steel Braided Fuel Hose
Nylon Braided Fuel Hose
Electrical Tape
Various Anodized Fuel Fittings (used & new)
1/4" Nylon Tubing
Brass NPT to Barb Fitting
Injector O-Rings
Stainless Steel Filler Rod
Aluminum Filler Rod
12 Gauge Wire
18 Gauge Wire (some copper exposed)
U.S. Quarter
Mild Steel Washer
NGK Iridium Spark Plug
Hose Clamp
-4 AN Steel Braided Hose
Aeromotive Fuel Filter
Scion tC OEM Fuel Rail (half)
Scion tC OEM Fuel Pump

http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab183/boostworksny/e85test_04252010.jpg

link - http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2766595

[Stealthmode]

I use it, and it seems the only two tuners I trust in the area swear by it. My experience.

-It smells funny at first, but once aquired, it hits you somewhat like race gas because you know it means POWWWA!!

-It takes lots of pump and injector to pull off compared to gas.

-The cost of it has no bearing on cost/mpg. It sucks for mpg, but works great in power applications.

-As far as corosiveness (sp?), and gumming up in the winter months, I was told that it cleans the system so well that the gunk is what people think is gumming, when it's really the cleaning power of the fuel. Unsure.

-I like burritos of the breakfast variety.

[djtydus]

pretty much well said,

i have experiance it as well, n/a cars are good for gas mileage but as for turbo it's not so good for a gas saver but you get the power that you like out of it.

i did hear some people have rod bearing issue being all eat up because of leaving it over during winter, but as for me i loved it besides pumping gas 2x everyweek.

best of all. is that the smell makes you hungry in the morning lol. yummy....corn...munch...

[Vi3tboy]

Good gas mileage in na cars? :lolhit:

I can't wait to make the switch over next year. Dual pumps of corn ftw!

[SlowEGG]

My car got like 25mpg. And it was a lot of highway action in there :palm:

[AlexD]

i put about 5 trakshun in each wheel for a total of 10.

but really i like e85, ill make the switch eventually, just dont wanna have to search for station while im out traveling about.

If i recall right, cars using E85 consume about 30% more fuel vs pump.

E85 from what i read also burns cooler than gasoline. Ive seen in some articles that E85 is about 9.7 Lambda vs gasoline which is around 14.7

[SlowEGG]

burns cooler, you can run more timing. IIRC jordan got pretty good gas mileage on his b16. If you have a garmin, you can DL custom POI's for it. I have it on mine. Tells you where they are and which one is closest and obviously you can select them as a destination if you need to.

[Stealthmode]

If i recall right, cars using E85 consume about 30% more fuel vs pump.

E85 from what i read also burns cooler than gasoline. Ive seen in some articles that E85 is about 9.7 Lambda vs gasoline which is around 14.7



About 30% is correct. As far as the burns cooler thing, I believe your 9.7 vs. 14.7 statement is what really equals the cooling. More E85 is needed in the cylinder vs. gasoline, for the same bang, which allows the larger quantity of E85 to cool the cylinder.

[Whispering Eye]

i use it and $18 dolla fill ups is niiiiiiiiiiice!

[auto_manual_swap]

ok so i have a question, im gonna be getting my car tuned for e85 after i get my turbo put on maybe even before, is it really worth it? ive been hearing you burn through it alot faster and your mpg gets shot to shit, i make it to chicago on about 3/4's a tank of gas and id like to keep it that way

[Stealthmode]

If you're looking for cost vs. miles per gallon, it's horseshit. For power applications where cost per mile isn't in the equation, do it. Otherwise, don't.

[Vtecstyle]

Just use it to make more power its the bomb. And it backfires like a SOB

[hamman_25]

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1812349

[SlowEGG]

As Dana says, its about "smiles per gallon."

[inspector01]

I have been using E85 for a few years and love it, i get about 23-25 mpg mixed driving, on a car rated for ~25 mixed and ~28 hwy i think so that isn't too bad. For most applications, its only the cost of bigger injectors, which going from 750s-1000s or something is nearly the same cost so no biggy there.

I am set up to easily switch back and forth between pump/e85 so that doesn't bother me at all, but for anyone that doesn't want to do that and is worried, i have run 1/2 pump and 1/2 E85 on my full E85 tune before when I couldn't find a station to get around (obviously take it easy, and only do this if you have a wideband) but what would normally be ~15:1 AFR cruising, went down to ~13:1 AFR which is just fine to get you to the next E85 station.


Ive seen in some articles that E85 is about 9.7 Lambda vs gasoline which is around 14.7

Lambda is the same for all fuels, 1lambda=~9.7AFR for E85, and 1 lambda=~14.7 AFR for pump gas.

[AlexD]

yeah i read that afterwards lol.

you are correct

1 lambda for E85 = 9.7
1 lambda for Pump gas = 14.76

[AlexD]

ok so i have a question, im gonna be getting my car tuned for e85 after i get my turbo put on maybe even before, is it really worth it? ive been hearing you burn through it alot faster and your mpg gets shot to shit, i make it to chicago on about 3/4's a tank of gas and id like to keep it that way

for the first month or so youre going to have shitty mileage from a heavy foot. after that it gets better.

honestly if you were to baby your car with E85 and Pump youll find that the cost savings with e85 equal out because you fill up more.

[hamman_25]

^word, that's what i've read and heard

[pat lehmann]

i dont think of it as E85 vs pump gas. i think of it as E85 vs race gas. now figure out which one would cost more to run in your daily driver. and which one would be harder to find traveling out on the road? if you look at it from that perspective E85 wins out.

just keep an eye on your engine oil and change it more frequently as the increased amount of raw fuel traveling through the engine can find it's way past the ringpack and contaminate your oil.

tune it accordingly and have fun!

C2H5OH oxygen it what it's about!

[joshkx]

how many cc injector u guys prefer to run on a all motor gsr with e85? i heard that some people was running on 440 with e85 tune on their n/a b series...so i was j/w?

[AlexD]

440 is fine

[joshkx]

How much can i max the 440 with e85? How many hp?

[AlexD]

on pump gas theres people making mid 300's with them around 85% duty cycle, as far as ive been reading.

On E85 id say 300, but id let others chime in.

[da_dude]

I say you'll max those 440cc a little over 200whp.

[06Accord6spd]

I use it in my NA Camaro and have been really happy with it. In my case the cost is far less because I'm otherwise needing min. of 100 oct. gasoline when at the track. The other issue was even being able to consistently find 100 oct. unleaded. Before converting, most of the time I was just mixing 111 oct. leaded with some 92 oct. unleaded so needless to say, O2 sensors were at that point a consumable maintenance item. I've got some tuning to do but the car seems to just love the stuff at WOT.

And the smell is great ;)

Todd

[SPANISH-RICE]

I say you'll max those 440cc a little over 200whp.

that.^


i ran E85 in my civic for over 2 years and put about +20k on it that includes all winter. and i loved it. $17 fillups were awesome and you really cant beat that smell. if youve ever taken a manifold off a car that has run only E85 youll see a hell of alot less soot and everything too.

never once saw a piece of the fuel system fail or even show signs of premature wear. that includes the rubber hose thats inside the fuel pump that constantly saw contact with the fuel.

right after i got tuned (395hp) i drove back from the cities (250mi) and only romped on it a few times but i got 36 mpg. in town and cold weather driving was alot worse mileage but i was really impressed on the highway.

[AlexD]

really? 440's will max around 200 on E85? killer

[GSRtrent]

Hey guys.

What size injectors should I be getting to get 500+ whp? e85, obviously, and that would also require a dual fuel pump setup as well, right?

So, e85, dual walbro, and what, like 1400 cc injectors? Bigger or smaller?

[Vi3tboy]

Hey guys.

What size injectors should I be getting to get 500+ whp? e85, obviously, and that would also require a dual fuel pump setup as well, right?

So, e85, dual walbro, and what, like 1400 cc injectors? Bigger or smaller?

2150's

[GSRtrent]

Those are some big pups!

Alright, thanks for letting me know!

http://www.shopmsptuned.com/store/index.php/fic-2150cc-honda-accura-bluemax-injector-set-high-z.html

[AlexD]

good lord 800

[Vi3tboy]

Those are some big pups!

Alright, thanks for letting me know!

http://www.shopmsptuned.com/store/index.php/fic-2150cc-honda-accura-bluemax-injector-set-high-z.html

Check out hatch boners build.

He's over 500 right now with the 2150's :DW:

[GSRtrent]

good lord 800

Yeah dude! lol

Man Alex, you go through avatars like a10 cent hooker goes through birth control! lol

[kinetics]

Dude, my car puts down 180WHP NA in current fixins (we'll see new numbers in a week or 2), and runs 750cc's on E85, and hits 62% duty cycle at peak RPM.
That means they should be good to 300 WHP or so.

If you REALLY want to get a good feel for what to buy:
http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx?UserID=5169706&SessionID=TYfh8C6VaO4B3pYbP9eI

Remember to increase BSFC by ~30%, and you're golden.

I've only run E85 for a year, but have absolutely no complaints.
Runs strong, mileage is less, but manageable.
Exhaust smells awesome :p

I've got a mix of 1 or 2 stock fuel hoses (from 1991), and new stuff, and don't notice any softening or anything, atm.
Some day this summer, I'll cut and flare that hardline, and put in new hose there too, but I'm not worried yet.

Plugs are clean, w/a little white powdery residue on them.
I haven't really disassembled anything yet, but for the most part, things look pretty good, as far as cleanliness compared to petrol.

[SPANISH-RICE]

Dude, my car puts down 180WHP NA in current fixins (we'll see new numbers in a week or 2), and runs 750cc's on E85, and hits 62% duty cycle at peak RPM.
That means they should be good to 300 WHP or so.

If you REALLY want to get a good feel for what to buy:
http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx?UserID=5169706&SessionID=TYfh8C6VaO4B3pYbP9eI

Remember to increase BSFC by ~30%, and you're golden.

I've only run E85 for a year, but have absolutely no complaints.
Runs strong, mileage is less, but manageable.
Exhaust smells awesome :p

I've got a mix of 1 or 2 stock fuel hoses (from 1991), and new stuff, and don't notice any softening or anything, atm.
Some day this summer, I'll cut and flare that hardline, and put in new hose there too, but I'm not worried yet.

Plugs are clean, w/a little white powdery residue on them.
I haven't really disassembled anything yet, but for the most part, things look pretty good, as far as cleanliness compared to petrol.



i would think a little over 200 would be the max. i ran 450s on pump and maxed out the injectors at 240 with like 98% DC

[AlexD]

wow, good info! didnt know that.

i guess i owe brandon a 3 wise men.

[boostedteg]

Hey guys.

What size injectors should I be getting to get 500+ whp? e85, obviously, and that would also require a dual fuel pump setup as well, right?

So, e85, dual walbro, and what, like 1400 cc injectors? Bigger or smaller?

2150's

depends on the setup. scotty didnt max his 1600's till he hit 636hp. if you plan on going more than 550 then you might as well spend the extra on the fic 2150's if not then 1600's should do just fine.

[inspector01]

Dude, my car puts down 180WHP NA in current fixins (we'll see new numbers in a week or 2), and runs 750cc's on E85, and hits 62% duty cycle at peak RPM.
That means they should be good to 300 WHP or so.


Yes, 750s should do a bit over 300 whp on E85, also remember, crome does not accurately measure IDC, so you can't base anything on that, you need to use an automotive multimeter to measure IDC if using crome.

[Vi3tboy]

depends on the setup. scotty didnt max his 1600's till he hit 636hp. if you plan on going more than 550 then you might as well spend the extra on the fic 2150's if not then 1600's should do just fine.

If his goal is 550 like it says in his sig I'm sure once he gets use to that power he will want more. Just trying to save him money in the long run

[GSRtrent]

If his goal is 550 like it says in his sig I'm sure once he gets use to that power he will want more. Just trying to save him money in the long run

Haha, very true!

The block is gonna have Darton Sleeves, Arias Pistons, Eagle Rods, crank balancer (oil pump damper) and the rotating assembly balanced. So it should handle more power just fine, lol. Plus a fully built head with Skunk2 Pro1's.

I heard 1600 cc will do the trick, but like you said, why not pay a little more and get a little larger injectors for later down the road.

[SPANISH-RICE]

Yes, 750s should do a bit over 300 whp on E85, also remember, crome does not accurately measure IDC, so you can't base anything on that, you need to use an automotive multimeter to measure IDC if using crome.

LOL SO TRUE. i just remember seeing 106% duty cycle at one point and thats a bit of a head scratcher lol.

[mr.dsm]

well i have a few questions... i have a BONE stock 96 civic coupe... its a d series has v tec... i plan on running ture cold air intake and full 2 1/2 inch exhaust header inculded and a 50 to 75 shot of juice dry... adjustable cam gear... i was thinking a set of lude 310's and a walbro from what im trying to do am i right???

[AlexD]

what?

[SPANISH-RICE]

well i have a few questions... I have a bone stock 96 civic coupe... Its a d series has v tec... I plan on running ture cold air intake and full 2 1/2 inch exhaust header inculded and a 50 to 75 shot of juice dry... Adjustable cam gear... I was thinking a set of lude 310's and a walbro from what im trying to do am i right???

is this english?

[RyanJ1986]

i dont follow.....

[picturethis]

well i have a few questions... i have a BONE stock 96 civic coupe... its a d series has v tec... i plan on running ture cold air intake and full 2 1/2 inch exhaust header inculded and a 50 to 75 shot of juice dry... adjustable cam gear... i was thinking a set of lude 310's and a walbro from what im trying to do am i right???

http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/picturethis1982/calm.jpg

[SlowEGG]

lude injectors are 345's. If you're really looking for some, i gotz em :thumb: Although you can do that on pump gas.

[mr.dsm]

ok ill slow down... would i benefit any from running e85? my motor is a d16 it will have I/E with a small dry shot of spray... is there any tuning advantages or over all advantages to running e85 as to pump gas? is this better???

[mr.dsm]

lude injectors are 345's. If you're really looking for some, i gotz em :thumb: Although you can do that on pump gas.

pm'd

[SPANISH-RICE]

ok ill slow down... Would i benefit any from running e85? My motor is a d16 it will have i/e with a small dry shot of spray... Is there any tuning advantages or over all advantages to running e85 as to pump gas? Is this better???

you can get away with more in your tune and could probably run a little more timing. Probably not all that worth it for such low power

[SmoreKusBore]

Hey guys.

What size injectors should I be getting to get 500+ whp? e85, obviously, and that would also require a dual fuel pump setup as well, right?

So, e85, dual walbro, and what, like 1400 cc injectors? Bigger or smaller?

1600's should be big enough. but it never hurts to get bigger for room for expansion. there is an alternate to dual walbro i believe its called the ac 1,000 correct me if im wrong. also you might want to think about upgrading your fuel lines so they can flow a lil bit more.. remember if you run e85 you have to pull 33.3% more fuel then if you were on pump gas..

[mr.dsm]

you can get away with more in your tune and could probably run a little more timing. Probably not all that worth it for such low power

ok thanks spanish rice... :thumb:

[cxjon]

awesome thread

[Turboimports]

My Eclipse Spyder GSX on E85 with the 2.4L, PT67, AEM EMS, etc. etc. put down 560awhp around 20psi with RC Engineering 1000cc injectors. Over 100% duty cycle. This was also with one single Walbro 255lph fuel pump.
We are now building a fuel system with the Aeromotive A1000. Still debating on the 2150cc FIC injectors.
Aiming to put down 700awhp. Still have misc. things to work out.

[ej1_ex]

My Eclipse Spyder GSX on E85 with the 2.4L, PT67, AEM EMS, etc. etc. put down 560awhp around 20psi with RC Engineering 1000cc injectors. Over 100% duty cycle. This was also with one single Walbro 255lph fuel pump.
We are now building a fuel system with the Aeromotive A1000. Still debating on the 2150cc FIC injectors.
Aiming to put down 700awhp. Still have misc. things to work out.


you guys still have that purple gsx? man i swear i saw a white boy driving it! but very nice setup you got

[civic_eg6]

If you're looking for cost vs. miles per gallon, it's horseshit. For power applications where cost per mile isn't in the equation, do it. Otherwise, don't.

good answer....

[Vtecstyle]

I ran e85 in my hatch and i like it a lot. Sucked when taking trips thou. driving to humbolt and back i brought along a 6 gallon jug of it. just in case i needed more. like steve said. hes right on with that. Mileage is garbage. Power out put is awesome.

frankly i was only making 320 hp but im sure if i ran with pump gas id be making less than 300 hp.

[Boosted1.6]

I have E85 in my boosted civic and have not had any issues besides filling up twice a week. I only lost about 50miles on my mpg so its really nothing to me. Ron over at RS Motors recommended me to go this way because it makes more power plus it was better with the injectors that I have.

[Tou]

making 240+ whp N/A and 28-30 mpg daily driving..so still not awful mpg..i know some people making less hp n/a and getting less mpg on pump too so its all in the tune. But in general, yes, you will lose mpg going to E-85.

[SlowEGG]

making 240+ whp N/A and 28-30 mpg daily driving..so still not awful mpg..i know some people making less hp n/a and getting less mpg on pump too so its all in the tune. But in general, yes, you will lose mpg going to E-85.

true story, Jordan seems to be a wiz with supa dupa mpgz

[nusdogg]

I didn't know you can lose MPG converting to E85.

[AlexD]

thats because you use more of it than regular gas. but its cheaper. it equates out to normal though

[kinetics]

Jordan tuned my part throttle lean on E.
"15's" he said, hehe (which is technically a little over 9:1). Most of it is 15's, but there's some spots that lean out to 16+.
I've been peeking at it on my commutes, pulling out the leanest spots, rather than relying on the short term trim to fix it.

The point it, 15's or a bit leaner is OK, due to the high octane/resistance to knock.
Even in low to mid 16's, I don't have any knock.
You wouldn't want to run this lean at full load/WOT though, as you'd undoubtedly start getting knock, and causing damage.

[jim9]

E-85 = Cheap race gas :)

[Turboimports]

you guys still have that purple gsx? man i swear i saw a white boy driving it! but very nice setup you got

Thanks.
Still have it. There are quite a number of other purple looking Spyders out there.
Yeah, I'd recommend getting at least 1000cc for all E85 users with forced induction in mind. Otherwise you'll be looking to upgrade sooner or later.
The single walbro will support up to around 500hp, of course depending on your set up.
Just kind of speaking off my own experience.