Tracking a turbocharged car

[AlexD]

Im going to stir up some threads with questions ive always wondered.

For anyone here that races their turbocharged honda on a track, how is it?

ive heard from several people that boosted hondas road racing like to produce alot of heat.

anyone got any experience?

even if its autocross id like to hear.

[cxjon]

i always wondered that too

[AlexD]

bump, someones got some experience i just know it!

are oil coolers recommended for a road racing turbo honda? or just recommended in general?

[AlexD]

found a good thread on crsx, but would still like some opinions from the locals.

http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=220213&highlight=turbo

[Vi3tboy]

Do it and find out :D

[AlexD]

i haz no turboz

[cxjon]

i got turboz, nnnaawwwwsss, everythang!!!!

[untitledfolder]

He's got a cold air intake, t3/t4 turbo, direct port nos...

[AlexD]

i feel like we're straying from the topic at hand . . . . .

[pat lehmann]

the only experience i have with a turbo vehicle that is getting "road raced/autoxed" is the FSAE car we built in college. it had a turbocharged 600cc honda engine. we had a lot of trouble keeping the car cool, which we spent almost a month trying to fix and tracked it down to being a faulty radiator cap. you could test the cap and it would pass but the car would still overheat.

the engine was run on E85 and made 92hp/74tq on an engine dyno. to save weight on the car we didnt run an intercooler which would result in pretty high intake air temps (like 230-250) all the time. at competition we had to run it hard for like 30 minutes in the endurance race so finally we just ran it for a couple 30 minute sessions without stopping just beating the piss out of it like it would see at competition and we couldnt get the motor to scatter.
once we got a good radiator cap on the engine always ran around 220 i think. its kind of hard to remember the specifics, but the point im making is that if the tune is good you can really beat the shit out of them without failure, so try it out =)

but i would spend extra time making your setup well thought out. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A FAN WITH A SHROUD! you see a lot of cars with little slim fan ziptied to the radiator with no shroud. in order for the fan to be effective you need a nice shroud that fits tight on the radiator and if room allows move the fan back some. make some good ducting through the frontend to get air moving though there. maybe run a vented hood. if you are really worried about it maybe put an intercooler sprayer type setup on the car. you could maybe try putting something like that on the radiator also. although i dont think i have seen one before.

here is a link to a video of the car. this was during testing so some things were changed on the car and the body was added. some of the footage was taken right away when we got it running and the muffler was sticking out. we later finished the exhaust so it had an upswept design which you see later in the video. YouTube- 2007 MSU Mankato - Formula SAE Car Demonstration

[AlexD]

Thanks Pat! this was just wat i was looking for! i may decide to go boost down the road (prolly not for a while) but i figured this would be a good question to ask.


the only experience i have with a turbo vehicle that is getting "road raced/autoxed" is the FSAE car we built in college. it had a turbocharged 600cc honda engine. we had a lot of trouble keeping the car cool, which we spent almost a month trying to fix and tracked it down to being a faulty radiator cap. you could test the cap and it would pass but the car would still overheat.

id imagine a stock radiator wouldnt cut it for road racing, how would a mishimoto half size radiator do? or any for that matter?



the engine was run on E85 and made 92hp/74tq on an engine dyno. to save weight on the car we didnt run an intercooler which would result in pretty high intake air temps (like 230-250) all the time. at competition we had to run it hard for like 30 minutes in the endurance race so finally we just ran it for a couple 30 minute sessions without stopping just beating the piss out of it like it would see at competition and we couldnt get the motor to scatter.
once we got a good radiator cap on the engine always ran around 220 i think. its kind of hard to remember the specifics, but the point im making is that if the tune is good you can really beat the shit out of them without failure, so try it out =)

what about oil temperatures? i was thinking a good oil cooler kit, a quality intercooler, fan switch, and thermostat would help keep temps down?



but i would spend extra time making your setup well thought out. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A FAN WITH A SHROUD! you see a lot of cars with little slim fan ziptied to the radiator with no shroud.

could you perhaps post a picture up of a shroud?



in order for the fan to be effective you need a nice shroud that fits tight on the radiator and if room allows move the fan back some. make some good ducting through the frontend to get air moving though there. maybe run a vented hood. if you are really worried about it maybe put an intercooler sprayer type setup on the car. you could maybe try putting something like that on the radiator also. although i dont think i have seen one before.

what would you say about cowl induction on our hoods?

[AlexD]

like this

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/hansnj/rollingshotac3-1.jpg

[91_CRX]

id imagine a stock radiator wouldnt cut it for road racing, how would a mishimoto half size radiator do? or any for that matter?


Mishimoto, Koyo, and Fluidyne are the big ones, and they're all just about the same, so get whichever one you can pick up for cheaper at the time. Copper (like the factory radiator) is actually better for heat transfer than aluminum (like the aftermarket ones), but it's not as durable. You will probably be fine with the stock radiator unless you need a half-sized to fit the turbo.



what about oil temperatures? i was thinking a good oil cooler kit, a quality intercooler, fan switch, and thermostat would help keep temps down?


Heat is the biggest enemy in any under-hood project. These are all great ideas. Don't spend too much money on all that though, because it's usually cheaper to piece together "kits" than to buy ready-to-install ones.



could you perhaps post a picture up of a shroud?


http://www.zcentre.co.uk/shop/images/latest%20pics%201%20107%20small.jpg

http://www.totallytriumph.net/spitfire/projects/radiator_shroud_before.jpg

The idea of a shroud is to force air to come through the radiator and out through the fan. The radiator is an obstacle to flowing air, and if it has the opportunity, air will go around, above, under the radiator rather than through it. You want to create high pressure in front of the radiator and low pressure behind (with a vented hood, for example) it to coax air to go through (fluids like air only flow from high pressure to low pressure, and the higher the difference, the better the cooling will be)



what would you say about cowl induction on our hoods?

This would probably not be a good idea. The area where the hood meets the windshield is a high-pressure zone on most cars, so you would be raising the under-hood pressure, decreasing the performance of the radiator

[AlexD]

Thanks for the info man! very helpful!




Heat is the biggest enemy in any under-hood project. These are all great ideas. Don't spend too much money on all that though, because it's usually cheaper to piece together "kits" than to buy ready-to-install ones.



would you mind elaborating on this one a bit?

what do you mean by piecing together?

you dont mean turbo kit do you?

i didnt know an oil cooler, thermostat, and fan switch came in "kits"

[paulzy]

talk to batboyvaj. he road races a turbo honda. Does really well against higher end cars too.

[91_CRX]

would you mind elaborating on this one a bit?

what do you mean by piecing together?

you dont mean turbo kit do you?

i didnt know an oil cooler, thermostat, and fan switch came in "kits"

That applies especially to turbo kits. Turbo kits are usually designed to fit applications that the designers predict a demand for. They usually use inferior parts (BOV, wastegate, fuel control, etc) to save costs, and usually the whole kit costs more than a similar set-up designed for your specific application with higher-quality parts - you just have to do more work for the latter. You have to buy the turbo, manifold, intercooler, and all the other various equipment separately. I don't know how much you personally know about turbo systems, but the thing to keep in mind is that the more time you spend planning, the less time you spend fixing. If you need more info, I can refer you to some introductory books on turbocharger system engineering that helped me out a lot.

I've also seen oil cooler kits sold for insanely high markups. You don't need a big name with that sort of heat exchanger, and if you're spending anywhere near $50, you're probably spending way too much.

[AlexD]

oh i know to piece together my own kit, dont worry ive researched the components extensively.

what i thought you were referring to was a piecing a cooling kit together consisting of the oil cooler, thermostat, and fan switch, so that kind of threw me off.

but as far as oil coolers go, i think i was going to use a mishimoto universal one. i want to turbo and roadrace, but only if its feasible.

if im not mistaken, theres someone on here that autox's a turbo white ek9

[91_CRX]

oh i know to piece together my own kit, dont worry ive researched the components extensively.

what i thought you were referring to was a piecing a cooling kit together consisting of the oil cooler, thermostat, and fan switch, so that kind of threw me off.

but as far as oil coolers go, i think i was going to use a mishimoto universal one. i want to turbo and roadrace, but only if its feasible.

if im not mistaken, theres someone on here that autox's a turbo white ek9

Good deal. I can see how my comment could throw you off :p
Good luck getting this all together. Racing is so fun. Too bad I can't afford to do it right now

[travail]

bump, someones got some experience i just know it!

are oil coolers recommended for a road racing turbo honda? or just recommended in general?

I would recommended having one on your car any ways.

[AlexD]

i never read whether or not a factory gsr came with an oil cooler? its something i never really thought about anyways, but i know rsx type S's came with them.

[djtydus]

1/4 for turbo. lets just say if you make more then 200hp you better be runing slicks, but for autoX i herd turbo cars lose more time then N/a and S/c.

[AlexD]

i can understand that.

boost on a turbocharged vehicle does not come in as linear as an NA or SC car does.

When youve got that much power coming in at once, grip is probably something you wont have easily. Which means 100% throttle isnt something thats easy to do in an NA or SC car. Of course, an LSD would do much to help you out.

Road racing might be something a little easier to do on a turbo FWD car, and of course having good throttle control helps :)

[djtydus]

yes..ey men

[Brandon]

Only bit I can add is as the race goes on I can notice a drop in pressure do to the oil thinning out because of heat soak.

I would highly suggest an oil cooler with an external oil filter to help out with heat reduction

[AlexD]

never heard of an external filter before?

[91_CRX]

never heard of an external filter before?

Also called oil filter relocation. Just means moving it off the block so it doesn't heatsoak.

[AlexD]

oh, i think ive seen those on s2000s before

[Brandon]

never heard of an external filter before?

Also called oil filter relocation. Just means moving it off the block so it doesn't heatsoak.

Correct, Most people that have a turbocharged track car run an external oil filter. This way the oil does not become heat soaked or pool up.

oh, i think ive seen those on s2000s before

This is done on many turbocharged applications

[AlexD]

ive only ever seen it done on an s2000, does anyone have pictures of where its relocated to on an integra?

[91_CRX]

You can put it wherever. You can buy a kit, or you can just get the sandwich adapter and a bracket so you can choose where to put it. You would usually mount it somewhere that makes it easier to change the filter than it currently is, like near the driver's side engine mount or above the transmission somewhere.

[AlexD]

You can put it wherever. You can buy a kit, or you can just get the sandwich adapter and a bracket so you can choose where to put it. You would usually mount it somewhere that makes it easier to change the filter than it currently is, like near the driver's side engine mount or above the transmission somewhere.

interesting, i never gave oil filter relocation much thought, and now that i look it up, it seems rather inexpensive.

it would be awesome to get to the filter easier, and to relocate it to a cooler spot (if possible)

thanks for the information guys.

[Bad Biddy]

that would be good just on a everday car^ changin the filters suck A** especially if your a big person or have big hands.

[91_CRX]

that would be good just on a everday car^ changin the filters suck A** especially if your a big person or have big hands.

Oh yeah. I helped out 2000_Integra_GS and GSR_Racer_Chick on some oil changes in their Integras, and all I can say now is that I love my D-series!

[Bad Biddy]

i looked at some of these oil filter relocation kits and it seems they only include enough line to move them like a foot. I still dont think that would be enough to make it somewhere useful in the engine bay.

[Brandon]

Your right, With most of the kits it only moves the filter from the block to the fire wall. How ever sandwich plates use the same AN fittings as any other oil fed application(turbos, coolers ect.) So it's not that hard to simply go out and by some longer line and route it to where ever you decide to mount it.

People usually mount them on the strut tower, Fire wall Or the core support/frame rail. This combined with an oil cooler can significantly reduce oil temps.

[AlexD]

very interesting, if only i could find pictures of it.

[91_CRX]

http://media.photobucket.com/image/acura%20integra%20oil%20filter%20relocation/ashb82/ENGINEBAYOILCOOLER.jpg

Here is an EG with the oil filter relocated to the front of the bay. You can see the green (probably HAMP) filter to the right of the driver's side radiator mount in that pic

[AlexD]

wow that is way cool, i would like to do something similar.

so instead of buying an actual "kit" would a sandwich plate adapter and some lines and fittings be enough to do something like this? oil changes would literally take 10 minutes then lol.

[Bad Biddy]

yeah^^ exactly changin oil would be a breeze.

Someone should come up with a parts list and maybe prices because i am not so smart about which fittings and lines to get.

Also maybe post a site that has it all. unless maybe a store

[Bad Biddy]

yeah^^ exactly changin oil would be a breeze.

Someone should come up with a parts list and maybe prices because i am not so smart about which fittings and lines to get.

Also maybe post a site that has it all. unless maybe a store


Also now when its relocated do you have to put more oil into the motor because the oil has to go through all that line?

[91_CRX]

Also now when its relocated do you have to put more oil into the motor because the oil has to go through all that line?

Yes. The extra line (and cooler, if you have one) will increase your oil capacity. I'm not sure by how much, but it really can't be more than a quart or two for the longest lines.

[Brandon]

Just in you average turbo setup your oil capacity increases atleast .3/.4 which would bring you up to 4.8

[Bad Biddy]

thanks man^^ also is there anyone else thinkin about do a oil filter relocation?