tuning timing. knock or egt?

[eastbethelboy]

should i invest into a knock box or egt? or both?

[Charlie Moua]

knock box?
you mean knock sensor like fjo?


Let ask you this "why do you think you need one"

EGT IMHO very usless, plus they cost a lot compared to most gauges.
If your going turbo.... the only 2 gauges that are a must is oil pressure & boost. Make sure you get full sweep gauges for rather than short sweeps.

If you have extra cash, then get a good quality wb & nice sensor like NTK rather than bosh sensors that don't last for crap.

[inspector01]

You should invest in dyno time, neither of those will come close to replacing that. They are simply extra sensors that may help you with a few things, but are not needed.

[Jordan]

This is one of those things... If you have to ask... You probably shouldn't be doing it yourself.

[eastbethelboy]

gotta start somewhere right jordan? :)

This is one of those things... If you have to ask... You probably shouldn't be doing it yourself.

[eastbethelboy]

in your opinion a det can/knock sensor should not be invested? i understand dyno would be a great upgrade but who has that kind of money for a dyno? so for a street tune what would be beneficial to have for tools? i simply just want some inputs...


You should invest in dyno time, neither of those will come close to replacing that. They are simply extra sensors that may help you with a few things, but are not needed.

[rsmotors]

Use a dyno to tune timing. A lot of cars will take more timing and not make anymore power. Specially on high octane fuel. By the time it detonates, it's too late.

[eastbethelboy]

http://www.theknockbox.cc/content/view/5/5/

a knock box is a similar version of a det can to listen for knock/ping/detonation used for tuning..

an egt is a great upgrade to get reading depending on your timing in a way
taken from this thread.... under detonation indicators..

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/tuning-electronic-engine-management/14426-engine-basics-detonation-pre-ignition.html


knock box?
you mean knock sensor like fjo?


Let ask you this "why do you think you need one"

EGT IMHO very usless, plus they cost a lot compared to most gauges.
If your going turbo.... the only 2 gauges that are a must is oil pressure & boost. Make sure you get full sweep gauges for rather than short sweeps.

If you have extra cash, then get a good quality wb & nice sensor like NTK rather than bosh sensors that don't last for crap.

[eastbethelboy]

true, but if you sense detonation you should not be advancing timing.. and from reading pre-ignition will destroy engines if not tune proper? detonation is always occurring?


Use a dyno to tune timing. A lot of cars will take more timing and not make anymore power. Specially on high octane fuel. By the time it detonates, it's too late.

[inspector01]

in your opinion a det can/knock sensor should not be invested? i understand dyno would be a great upgrade but who has that kind of money for a dyno? so for a street tune what would be beneficial to have for tools? i simply just want some inputs...


Yes, I have tuned quite a few cars and never used those. The only thing a det can/knock box will tell you, is if you are far too advanced, which on a street tune, should never happen as you should run conservative ignition timing. Yes they are a nice insurance that you aren't doing serious damge, but they will not help you gain anything, just prevent you from F-ing it up.

After a decent street tune, it shouldn't take more than an hour or 2 on the dyno, so ~$110-220 to actually have the car running optimum power, or spend the same or more on that stuff, just to make sure it isn't running shitty, what sounds like a better deal??

[Charlie Moua]

very valid points.

[eastbethelboy]

ok thanks.. better information this time.. yes run a conservative tune and optimized timing on dyno.. great info.

[rsmotors]

is this a turbo or na set up?
NA cars will tolerate a lot of timing and not make any added power. Turbo cars will depend of fuel type, compression and size of the cylinder bore.
Conservative timing on the map doesn't always mean conservative. Make sure you set your base timing properly. If your base is 5 degrees higher that it should be, and your map table has 20* at some given load/rpm point, then you are actually running 25*.

[eastbethelboy]

Yeap I have to link up my timing gun with the datalogger

[pat lehmann]

just set your base timing @ the distributor to what it should be stock and make sure the basemap has the same value. if the engine is 18* at idle thats what the timing map should be.

if the engine reaches detonation does it show up in the EGT? As it's retarded, egt goes up. and you know a "ideal" temp for the fuel you're running, but what if you keep advancing?

if you had a knock sensor when you were on the dyno you would find out how many degrees before knock it makes best tq and use that as a reference in the future maybe?

EGT's were mainly used to setup fuel trim before O2 sensors got popular right?

[eastbethelboy]

Great info pat... so egt and knock board are somewhat usefull... I do have a chipped p72 obd1 I plan on using. So get a read out with the knock board and retard some degrees... gotcha..

[eastbethelboy]

Do you guys think tuning cruise with cruise control is a good idea? Setting up afr at certain rpm ranges?

[inspector01]

Great info pat... so egt and knock board are somewhat usefull... I do have a chipped p72 obd1 I plan on using. So get a read out with the knock board and retard some degrees... gotcha..

There is a problem with this idea probably....

[eastbethelboy]

?? Imply


There is a problem with this idea probably....

[JDMB1992EG]

^Trying to tune yourself was a waste of effort time and money should of just used that money to get a dyno tune at jordan

[inspector01]

?? Imply

I was implying already that you there are some problems with that plan, unfortunately I can't tell you what, I don't want to come across as a dick and anger die fuhrer and get perma-banned.

[eastbethelboy]

ill just read plugs and tune timing from there.

[redlinetuning]

Street tuning is tough to dial in for power unless you're just trying to get it optimized for driving until you get it to a dyno. A wideband will be your best friend if you plan to do it yourself for the time being.

An EGT is good for temp monitoring, as the leaner it gets, the hotter the temps get. I've never used my EGT for anything other than monitoring. Oil Temp, Oil pressure, boost guages are very useful.

[bubblebrain]

DYNO. period.